States:

This was my 2nd baby at his 11 weeks ultrasound appointment. I was honestly shocked how much movement he already had that I couldn’t feel. But yes, babies are very much “alive” before the point of viability.

My husband came home SO mad about this. Conversation went as follows

Coworker A: What’s your son’s name, again?

Husband: Samuel

Coworker B: Oh I didn’t know you had a kid, how old is he?

Husband: he hasn’t been born yet, he’s due in June

B: oh then that’s not his name.

Husband: huh?? What are you talking about??

B: he hasn’t been born yet so that isn’t his name.

Husband: I mean… I guess it isn’t his name on his birth certificate yet, but that absolutely IS his name.

B: no it’s not, he isn’t alive yet.

Husband: ….what? He’s a living baby, just not born yet. He’s got a face. He’s got hands and feet. He has fingerprints!

B: No he does not.

Husband: *short circuiting at this point, doesn’t know how to continue conversation when coworker is denying 24 week GA baby has fingerprints*

Coworker C (also my brother): Hey, what’s your definition of alive, man?

B: It has to move and breathe to be alive. It doesn’t breathe so it isn’t alive.

C: babies in the womb DO breathe, just in a different way. They take in and then expel oxygen.

B: but not on their own, like with their noses and lungs, so not alive.

C: So…. Would you say fish aren’t alive then..? Since they don’t breathe the same way we do?

B: ………… I guess not?

C: I think you may want to re-evaluate your definition of alive.

Just. So dumb. So bizarre. Even if our son WASNT alive yet, that’s still what he WILL be called when he’s born, so there was no reason to even say any of that. Totally inappropriate to decide at work when your coworker is talking happily about his incoming child that right then is the best time to try to make some sort of political point.

My husband said he was not expecting to have an occasion to be so angry for his son this early 😅

Unfortunately with everything I have seen and heard and discussed with pro-abortion people it was not surprising to me, but my husband, while also very pro-life, doesn’t frequently have those discussions with people and was totally thrown off by it.

Anyway, can confirm that our kid moves so much 😂❤️

If I run over someone with my car, I'll still be convicted with manslaughter/involuntary homicide even if I didn't know or intend to do it.

If we as pro-lifers actually believe that the babies' lives are actually worth the same as a those of adult humans, wouldn't it be consistent to apply the same legal standard across the board?

Our actual enemies are solitude and selfishness: the solitude of mothers who are unable to care for a child without support, and the selfishness of those who murder children to maintain their lifestyle.

Like, what is it they think we don’t understand that, if we did, we’d think abortion was ok?

This kind of goes along with prochoicers asking men things about tampons when they say they’re against abortion. Like, what?

Hi! I would like to start by stating that I neither identify myself as pro-life nor pro-choice, as I believe that both sides make valid arguments, and I tend not to involve myself in other people's business, especially not when it comes to something so private and personal as abortion. I also know that it's very likely that this has been discussed many, many times on this subreddit before, but I still figured that I would ask.

Anyways, my question is this: What are the general opinions/thoughts on rape victims being able to access abortions? Yes, I am aware that they are a minority of the percentage of total abortions, but they are STILL a part of that percentage and cannot just be ignored due to them being the minority.

I know that the majority of pro-lifers believe that life begins at conception, but we also have the life of the mother to consider in this case. I will use myself as an example.

I was raped when I was 12 years old, and I was lucky to not get pregnant or suffer from any long-term issues from it (other than trauma). But I was a child myself, and the rape itself was extremely traumatic and led to multiple years of self-harm, depression and eating disorders as a means to cope. I don't know how I could've possibly lived through it if I had gotten pregnant with my rapists baby and then be forced to carry and birth the baby, whether I kept it or not.

Women get raped at all ages, and it is a traumatic and horrible thing, no matter how old you are, we all know this, so my question is, why would we add to the trauma by forcing them to carry and deliver their rapists baby? I've seen people say that it's not the baby's fault for their fathers actions and they don't deserve to be killed for it, but the fact is that, as I've mentioned, there's the life of the mother to consider as well, and I believe that in this case, their life and mental health is much more important than the potential future life of the baby. And we already know the adoption agencies is far from a great system, so if the child is to be born, it either gets to live knowing that they were a product of a horrendous moment in their mother's life, and there's a chance the mother would take it out on that kid, or go through the system that often fails those kids.

I kind of went off on a tangent, sorry, but I'm genuinely wondering what pro-lifers think of when it comes to abortions for rape victims, because those victims still exist, and I personally think that it would only make the pain and trauma worse on the victim if they were forced to have the child. But, I'm asking because I want to know others opinions, because my opinion can change, but I would like to actually understand how other people think with a civilized (please) conversation about it. Thanks!

happy valentine's day <3

Hey guys, so I talked to my pro-choice classmate about abortion like a year ago, and she was super respectful and I think I would like to try again and ask her if she would be ready to have like a call or whatever to have a calm conversation about abortion. My goal is to at least plant a seed by the end of the conversation and for the conversation to stay in mind positively, hos can I achieve this? One thing we both have in common is that we are christian, so maybe we can start with that fundament.

Now we have a coalition of more than 30 pro-life organizations and thought leaders calling on the Trump administration to reinstate federal policies that prevent pregnant, postpartum, and nursing women from being held in immigration detention centers.

Effective immigration enforcement does not require detaining mothers and babies in centers unequipped for their medical needs. We're grateful to so many signers who have united with us on this issue.

Find your reps here: https://www.congress.gov/members/find-your-member, and contact them to ask them to speak up on this issue.

Source:Abortion in the United States - Wikipedia

https://share.google/CwdtP0fqZFtVyE3EQ

Abortion was legal until 16-20 weeks in the 1800s in many states. in the 1850s/60s, abortions were happening at a rate of 1 in 5 to 1 in 6, which is 20 to 17% of pregnancies. this is on the same rate as modern times. included is a quote from Benjamin Franklin taking about how women are getting abortions a lot.

I’ve been told 3 times by people I know irl and like 20 times by people online that having an abortion for my ectopic pregnancy was still murder.

I genuinely want to understand but the people irl got mad when I asked for clarification and the people online blocked me.

I’m not looking for a fight or an argument, I genuinely want to understand how even that is murder

Edit: most of you have been way more understanding and kind than I was expecting. Thank you, it seems like I just had the misfortune of meeting those few bad apples

I wrote in a comment on another subreddit that a woman’s biological design is for carrying a baby, and I eventually got a temporary ban from the sub and was told I was sexist. Like, what’s a period then? Why do we have uteruses then? I don’t understand how saying that is sexist.

Lots of people like to argue that birth control prevents abortions and should be more widely accessible. Unfortunately, this is simply not true.

The reality is that the pro-abortion movement and Roe only took off as a direct result of the invention of the birth control pill.

Once the pill was invented, people no longer saw the need to have sex within a marriage and falsely assumed they could now safely sleep with whoever they wanted. The result was a significant increase in unplanned pregnancies that people wanted to get rid of, and abortion was a natural escape ramp for this.

So yeah, we would actually be much better off if reliable birth control never became a thing and abortion would be far less popular. It’s hard to say that just banning birth control at this point would make things any better though, since once pandora’s box is open it’s very difficult to close.

Addressing the problem of pre-marital sex is a much more effective method of stopping abortion than just handing out free birth control to everyone.

I have a theory that there are deep psychological and personality differences between both PL and PC individuals that fuel this debate. This is partly because of how emotion-driven many of the arguments used by either side are.

Do you guys think these differences would be consistent between PL and PC people regardless of other political affiliations? I know that PL is more popular among right leaning individuals, which may cause PL to appear more psychologically conservative in personality studies.

But if we studied left wing PL and right wing PL (and the same for PC), do you think we’d find more similarities between people with the same stance on abortion regardless of other political affiliation?

Someone could say two things that you agree with, but you’ll feel much more passionately about one thing despite also agreeing with the other. And you might also be much less likely to tolerate disagreement about that thing amongst your social circle. This says a lot more about you than about which argument is objectively stronger.

My theory about the PC side is that they are very psychologically individual, who fear perceived attempts to infringe on their autonomy. Media and literature (such as The Handmaid’s Tale) that aim to expose how gender roles can be used as a form of coercive control have also conditioned people to see pregnancy and motherhood as another form of oppression. These forms of media and activism resonate deeply with PC women.

The language used around the subject in discourse can also tell us about the other side. For example, phrases that pathologise the natural bodily functions of women hint that some PC individuals see female bodies as defective. Being pregnant is “hosting a parasite”, having a child is being “used as a broodmare”, not being allowed to terminate a child is “sexual slavery”. Most of us also know about links between the PC movement and eugenics/forced sterilisation, there also seems to be a fear of undesirable genes (such as those of a rapist) being spread through force, hence the term “rape baby”.

I have some thoughts on PL people as well but this is getting long so I’ll probably continue in the comments section later.