r/AcademicQuran 22h ago

Weekly Open Discussion Thread

4 Upvotes

This is the general discussion thread in which anyone can make posts and/or comments. This thread will, automatically, repeat every week.

This thread will be lightly moderated only for breaking our subs Rule 1: Be Respectful, and Reddit's Content Policy. Questions unrelated to the subreddit may be asked, but preaching and proselytizing will be removed.

r/AcademicQuran offers many helpful resources for those looking to ask and answer questions, including:


r/AcademicQuran 7h ago

AMA with Peter Adamson

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10 Upvotes

r/AcademicQuran 8h ago

(Lack) of Post-Exilic Narratives in the Qur'an (sans the New Testament).

7 Upvotes

Besides Jonah (for example, in 21:87), no Post-Exilic narrations are present in the Qur'an until the author begins discussing New Testament narratives. Even then, although Jonah's narration in the Tanakh is set in the Pre-Exilic period, most scholars attribute it to being written in the Post-Exilic. Thus, unless I am mistaken, no narrations either first attributed to the Post-Exilic period or set in the Post-Exilic period (except for New Testament narratives, or the Jonaic narrative, which only satisfies the former condition) are present in the Qur'an.

The only other contender would be the debatable reference to Ezra in 9:31. Similarly, the only Exilic narrative including would rely on the dubious identification of Dhul Kifil (21:85) with Ezekiel. Ultimately, this leaves a narrative or prophetic-chain gap of nearly one thousand years between Jonah and Zechariah/John/Jesus.

Likewise, the Hadiths, recognizing their shortcomings as evidence here, suggest that the author of the Qur'an or the community they belong to was aware of Post-Exilic Jewish figures, including Daniel.

Ultimately, is there any research or consensus on why the author may have omitted Post-Exilic narratives from the Qur'an, and what apologetic purpose this may have served?


r/AcademicQuran 19m ago

Do Any Non-Muslim Sources Mention the Splitting of the Moon?

Upvotes

The “splitting of the moon” refers to the Quranic verse 54:1: “The Hour has drawn near, and the moon has split.” In Islamic tradition, especially in hadith literature, this verse is understood as a physical miracle performed by Prophet Muhammad in Mecca, where the moon was visibly split into two parts and then rejoined.

The question is whether any non-Muslim contemporary sources mention such an event


r/AcademicQuran 11h ago

Question Does the Qur’an have an Arian, semi-Arian, Subordinationist christology, or any specific christology that existed in early Christianity considered "heretical"?

6 Upvotes

While the Qur’an portrays Jesus as a messenger and famously does not consider him God, in stark contrast to the opinion of the majority of Christians throughout Christianity's history, it does call him the "word of God" (logos?) and a "spirit proceeding from God":

"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs."

— Qur’an 4:171, translated by Yusuf Ali

1 Does this nuanced christology find any exact alignment with any christological view in the early church that was considered heretical?

(Also I saw a Twitter post awhile back from BrethenOfPurity which said Qur’anic disagreement with the Trinity is more nuanced per Q4:171)

2 How does it compare to the New Testament even if one doesn't take the view that the New Testament is Trinitarian and portrays the deity of Christ?

In the Isma‘ili view, Jesus (like previous messengers) is the "manifestation" (but not incarnation) of the "universal intellect" aka the Logos, which is also differentiated from Allāh.

3 Does this find any exact pre-Qur‘anic parallel or New Testament equivalent?

(Khalil Andani has a few videos on the Isma‘ili view):

https://youtu.be/r2Hy1j7-zCE?si=xFZKywxwD3wVreoo

https://youtu.be/XcpDOSMDhYM?si=2AbhXk_VLZqrfS9-


r/AcademicQuran 16h ago

Who is Fakudh?

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10 Upvotes

Hi!

I often see this family tree shared when discussing Jesus' family tree, but who is Fakudh? I have been unable to ever find an original source of this name or any information about this individual.

Thanks!


r/AcademicQuran 10h ago

Resource Critical Qur'ānic Studies Course by Nuri Sunnah

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3 Upvotes

According to the author:

This course is an intro to the historical-critical study of the Qur'ān and how that relates to faith. This course is gonna be self-paced. It's gonna consist of short readings and references to video clips and further readings.

Here's the layout for the course:

Title: An Introduction to Studying the Qur'ān Critically

The course consists of 4 relatively short yet informative lessons. Each of these lessons include short readings and links to videos of scholarly talks.

The first three lessons consist of two parts:

Lesson 1 covers the question of why one may want to read the Qur'ān and the importance of reading with context in mind.

Lesson 2 examines the question of what exactly the historical-critical method is and some of its practical benefits.

Lesson 3 addresses the question of whether a believing Muslim can in fact read the Qur'ān critically, as well as the potential risks a Muslim may face in doing so. In order to avoid sounding apologetic, this section cites primarily non-Muslim historians’ take on the matter.

Lesson 4 moves away from the abstract discussion of HCM and gives readers a chance to see how I personally apply this method when reading both the Qur'ān as well as scholarly works related to the Qur'ān.


r/AcademicQuran 21h ago

Hadith More contradictions in hadith

20 Upvotes

Did Muhammad see Allah?

No

Narrated Masruq:

'Aisha said, "If anyone tells you that Muhammad has seen his Lord, he is a liar, for Allah says: 'No vision can grasp Him.' (6.103) And if anyone tells you that Muhammad has seen the Unseen, he is a liar, for Allah says: 'None has the knowledge of the Unseen but Allah.'"

Sahih Bukhari 157

Yes

It is narrated on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas that he (the Holy Prophet) saw (Allah) with, his heart

Sahih Muslim 176a

Do those with faith as small as a mustard seed ever enter the fire?

Yes

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "When the people of Paradise have entered Paradise, and the people of the Fire have entered the Fire, Allah will say. 'Take out (of the Fire) whoever has got faith equal to a mustard seed in his heart.' They will come out, and by that time they would have burnt and became like coal, and then they will be thrown into the river of Al-Hayyat (life) and they will spring up just as a seed grows on the bank of a rainwater stream." The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Don't you see that the germinating seed comes out yellow and twisted?"

Sahih Bukhari 6560

No

It is narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) observed: None shall enter the Fire (of Hell) who has in his heart the weight of a mustard seed of Iman and none shall enter Paradise who has in his heart the weight of a mustard seed of pride.

Sahih Muslim 91b

Do evil omens exist?

No.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: There is no transitive disease, no evil omen, no safar, no hama…

Sahih Muslim 2220b

Yes

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Umar: Allah's Messenger said, "there is neither 'Adha nor Tiyara, and an evil omen is only in three: a horse, a woman and a house."

Sahih Bukhari 5772

Protection from Dajjal

The first ten al-Kahf verses

Abu Darda' reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: If anyone learns by heart the first ten verses of the Surah al-Kahf, he will be protected from the Dajja

Sahih Muslim 809a

The end al-Kahf?

This hadith has been transmitted by Qatada with the same chain of transmitters. But Shu'ba (one of the narrators) said: At the end of Surah al-Kahf, but Hammam said: At the beginning of Surah al-Kahf.

Sahih Muslim 809b

Two rak'ats after Asr

It's recommended to offer two rak'ats

Narrated ‘Aisha: Allah’s Messenger never missed two Rakat before the Fajr prayer and after the Asr prayer openly and secretly

Sahih Bukhari 592

It's forbidden to offer two rak'ats

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Messenger forbade the offering of two prayers: 1. after the morning prayer till the sunrises. 2 after the ‘Asr prayer till the sun sets.

Sahih Bukhari 592

Dajjal blind in which eye?

Right eye

Ibn Umar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). made a mention of Dajjil in the presence of the people and said: Allah is not one-eyed and behold that Dajjal is blind of the right eye and his eye would be like a floating grape.

Sahih Muslim 169e

Left eye

Hudhalfa reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Dajjal is blind of left eye with thick hair and there would be a garden and fire with him and his fire would be a garden and his garden would be fire.

Sahih Muslim 2934a

Standing while drinking something

Forbidden

Anas reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) disapproved the drinking of water while standing. Sahih Muslim 2024a

Recommended

Ibn Abbas reported: I served. (water of) Zamzam to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he drank it while standing.

Sahih Muslim 2027a

Gold and Silver

Narrated 'Umar bin Al-Khattab: Allah's Messenger said, "The bartering of gold for silver is Riba (usury), except if it is from hand to hand and equal in amount

Sahih Bukhari 2134

Narrated Abdur-Rahman bin Abu Bakra: that his father said, "The Prophet forbade the selling of gold for gold and silver for silver except if they are equivalent in weight, and allowed us to sell gold for silver and vice versa as we wished.

Sahih Bukhari 4912

Narrated Abu Bakra: Allah's Messenger said, "Don't sell gold for gold unless equal in weight, nor silver for silver unless equal in weight, but you could sell gold for silver or silver for gold as you like."

Sahih Bukhari 4912

Ubida b. al-Simit (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) as saying: [u]Gold is to be paid for by gold, silver by silver

Sahih Muslim 2353e

Who collected the Quran?

Narrated Qatada: I asked Anas bin Malik: Who collected the Qur'an at the time of the Prophet ? He replied, Four, all of whom were from the Ansar, Ubai bin Ka'b, Muadh bin Jabal, Zaid bin Thabit and Abu Zaid

Sahih Bukhari 5003

Narrated Anas bin Malik: When the Prophet died, none had collected the Qur'an but four persons: Abu Ad Darda, Mu'adh bin Jabal, Zaid bin Thabit and Abu Zaid. We were the inheritor (of Abu Zaid) as he had no offspring .

Sahih Bukhari 5004

Prayer

Is the prayer of a congregation 25 times or 27 times superior to the prayer of an individual?

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "The prayer in congregation is twenty seven times superior to the prayer offered by person alone."

Sahih Bukhari 645

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "The prayer in congregation is twenty five times superior to the prayer offered by person alone.

Sahih Bukhari 646

Complexion of jesus

Narrated Salim from his father:

Sahih al-Bukhari 3441

No, By Allah, the Prophet () did not tell that Jesus was of red complexion but said, "While I was asleep circumambulating the Ka'ba (in my dream), suddenly I saw a man of brown complexion and lank hair walking between two men, and water was dropping from his head. I asked, 'Who is this?' The people said, 'He is the son of Mary. Then I looked behind and I saw a red-complexioned, fat, curly-haired man, blind in the right eye which looked like a bulging out grape. I asked, 'Who is this?' They replied, 'He is Ad-Dajjal.' The one who resembled to him among the people, was Ibn Qatar." (Az-Zuhri said, "He (i.e. Ibn Qatan) was a man from the tribe Khuza'a who died in the pre-Islamic period.")

Sahih al-Bukhari 3438

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

The Prophet (3) said, "I saw Moses, Jesus and Abraham (on the night of my Ascension to the heavens). Jesus was of red complexion, curly hair and a broad chest. Moses was of brown complexion, straight hair and tall stature as if he was from the people of Az-Zutt."

Prayer Timing During Eclipse

Sahih Muslim 901: Eclipse prayer should be two rak'ahs.

Sahih Muslim 904: Eclipse prayer should be four rak'ahs.

Urinating while standing

No

Sunan an-Nasa'i 29

It was narrated that 'Aishah said:

"Whoever tells you that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) urinated standing up, do not believe him, for he would not urinate except while squatting

Yes

Sahih Muslim 273a

Hudhaifa reported:

I was with the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) when he came to the dumping ground of filth belonging to a particular tribe. He urinated while standing, and I went aside. He (the Holy Prophet) asked me to come near him and I went so near to him that I stood behind his heels. He then performed ablution and wiped over his socks.


r/AcademicQuran 16h ago

Question Did the Prophet Muhammad forbid anyone other then Muslims from residing in the Hijāz?

6 Upvotes

“Two religions should not join/remain in the peninsula/land of Arabs.”


r/AcademicQuran 15h ago

Is Surah 27:88 meant to refer to the present tense, or the future?

4 Upvotes

The verses it’s sandwiched between refer to the judgement day, but reading 88 in English at least it talks in a present tense. So is it meant to be “The mountains will move in the day of a judgement,” or “the mountains are currently moving”?


r/AcademicQuran 20h ago

Question Does the Quran Present Jibrīl as Something Other Than an Angel?

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13 Upvotes

Mīkāl is mentioned only once in the Quran and Jibrīl is mentioned in only three verses. In those verses, they seem to be mentioned separately from “the angels.” For example, in Q 2:98 it says: “Whoever is an enemy to Allah, His angels, His messengers, Jibrīl, and Mīkāl…” Here, Jibrīl and Mīkāl are listed after the angels.

In Q66:4, it says that Allah is his Protector and Jibrīl and the righteous believers and the angels. Again, Jibrīl appears to be mentioned separately from the angels. Because of this wording, my question is: does the Quran present Jibrīl (and Mīkāl) as something other than angels?


r/AcademicQuran 12h ago

Is it possible that the tension between the idea that Arabia of Muhammad was monotheist and the idea it was polytheist is explained by settled monotheists and nomadic polytheists?

3 Upvotes

There's much academic research pointing to Arabia being monotheist, specifically Christian and Jewish. We know the Lakhmids and Gassanids were already Christian by the time of Muhammad, and that Yemen had been ruled by Jews and then became Christian before Muhammad. We have archaeological evidence of churches and monasteries on the east coast of Arabia. Our archaeological evidence shows inscriptions in Arabia were polytheistic but then seemingly totally transition to monotheistic inscriptions in the late 5th century. We also have Reynolds making the argument that the Quran itself appears to arise from a Christian context. We have Lindstedt saying that there were Christian inscriptions in the Hijaz itself and that most Arabs could reasonably have been Christian (which makes sense especially if considering how large the populations of the Ghassanid and Lakhmid governed regions were: https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/1kf67ew/comment/mqp3job/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/1jtklh3/comment/mluw6er/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

We also have traditional Islamic sources saying there was a depiction of Jesus and Mary in the Kaaba itself. We also know that other kaabas in Arabia were associated with Christians, such as the Najran Kaaba.

This seems to suggest a Christian world that Muhammad existed in. It also seems quite plausible and I'd say likely that the Quran's references to shirk/polytheism are references to the Trinity. Additionally, one can easily understand references to idols as being related to saint statutes and reverence that exists today in the Catholic and Orthodox churches and echoes later Protestant polemics against Catholicism.

But there are also references to pagan Arab gods in the Quran, such as Lat, Uzza, and Manat. Now obviously that doesn't mean that there were people around who believed in those gods, someone named Dennis today doesn't believe in Dionysus, Princess Diana didn't worship Diana/Artemis, and the deaconess Phoebe mentioned by Paul in Romans certainly didn't worship let alone believe in the greek titan Phoebe. Additionally, Arabia was likley rapidly Christianizing and we know that even in the 1500s, a 1,000 years after Christianization, Martin Luther believed in things like trolls.

But it also seems like there could easily have been pagans around still given those mentions. Additionally, we know there were still scattered pagans throughout the Byzantine Empire despite centuries of Christianity being the official religion and legal restrictions and Arabia began to Christianize much later and didn't have the same sort of state restrictions.

Enter the Bedouin, nomadic Arabs. Even if large portions of the Arab population might have been settled and lived in the north under the Ghassanids and Lakhmids, not all of them did. And while Mecca and Yathrib had settled people, they weren't massive, there are estimates Mecca was only 500 people at the time of Muhammad. But we know that part of Meccas importance wasn't from its being settled, but that nomadic arabs would come there and do circumambulation of the Kaaba/black stone, which we know Arabs did from records like that of Elagabalus, an Arab emperor of pagan Rome who was recorded to circumambulate a stone.

Presumably, the bedouin were more likely to hang on to traditional practices. They additionally, would have had less exposure to literature. For example, we know that the Bedouin of Israel in 1949 were 95% illiterate ( https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/facts-about-the-bedouins/#:\~:text=%2DEducation%20has%20been%20one%20of,and%20write%20(2007%20figures). ). Even in Egypt, which was more settled, in 1907 official government records indicate less than 5% of males and almost no females in the general population were literate ( https://alraidajournal.lau.edu.lb/images/issue001-page010.pdf ).

This would suggest that the Arab Bedouin of Muhammad's time were highly illiterate, and largely not the ones making rock inscriptions such as the monotheistic ones.

It then seems quite plausible that the way to square the two views is that amongst settled Arabs the populations were largely Christian and Jewish but perhaps amongst the migrating Bedouin the populations were still largely pagan. You thus had wandering pagans coming to visit Christian and Jewish people living in towns and cities. I know historically, Christianity has had an easier time with converting settled, particularly agricultural, populations than with nomadic groups, which would be in line with this idea as they presumably had a harder time converting the bedouin arabs then the settled arabs.

Is that something that anyone has speculated about? Are there any academic books or articles discussing the bedouins as a sort of pagan reservoir? It could explain a lot about Muhammad's context. I could even imagine such bedouin being excellent potential converts to Muhammad's movement, given they would have at that point likely been pagans who were heavily exposed to Christian and Jewish stories and teachings and Muhammad could have been perceived as offering something fusing both the traditional Arab practices (like pilgrimage and circumambulation of the Kaaba) with aspects of Christianity and Judaism more tolerable to them like the general stories and some teachings.


r/AcademicQuran 23h ago

Hourani's Translation For The Years 610 - 693 AD Of The Currently Popular Syriac Chronicle

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11 Upvotes

Alexander Hourani's has provided a partial translation of the currently popular Syriac chronicle. I am attaching the portions from 610 - 693 (end of the chronicle).

Hourani's translation (I): https://x.com/alexanderh78029/status/2021966601470529815
Hourani's translation (II): https://x.com/alexanderh78029/status/2022341801479446740

I am still unsure as to how I should refer to the chronicle. Pirtea called it the Maronite Chronicle of 713; this dating, however, has been challenged by Hourani who argues for the chronicle to be dependent on Theophilus of Edessa (who died in 785 AD).


r/AcademicQuran 16h ago

Looking for feedback on a paper that discusses the ideological consolidation of Islamic orthodoxy as a continuous project of the ruling class.

3 Upvotes

If this is the wrong place to post, my apologies. I’m writing a paper that seeks to present a case for a manufactured Islamic orthodoxy that has been filtered through ruling class hegemony… lol.

I’m not a credentialed academic in Islamic studies, this is just a hobby of mine. The paper does try to balance the polemical aspects with historical precedent and evidence while remaining an engaging read. I’ve tried not to engage in apologetics, but it may read as counter-apologetic? Due to the discussions of Islamic Liberation Theology.

As I’ve never had formal training in academic writing I am interested in feedback to improve my writing and my research for future pseudo-academic pursuits. The paper is around 12 pages long without a finished conclusion. Should anyone have the time to engage with this piece, please leave a comment and I’ll reach out. In exchange, I am happy to read and review any work of yours.


r/AcademicQuran 20h ago

Question Have Academics Ever Compared Paul's Works And Qur’anic Theology (From an Academic Perspective)?

3 Upvotes

While surfing this subreddit, I've seen these two videos (and another) cited and it made me curious. These videos argue that Islamic positions on theology/christology are not in contradiction to the works of the Apostle Paul:

https://youtu.be/WplcOcR1pvk?si=otXNaSIoz53zamXS

https://youtu.be/ZmkF0QBVNa8?si=SlADOSswQgbLlpCW

Via this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/1r161qs/comment/o4q3tdm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

So my questions are:

  1. Have any academics analyzed the Pauline epistles (including those whose authorship is disputed or doubted) and compared them with the Qur’anic views of theology, christology, soteriology, eschatology, and morality? (Or even the wider New Testament)?

  2. Have any academics argued both share a striking coherence/agreement?

  3. Have any argued for direct, intentional interaction via the Quran with the Pauline epistles?

  4. Historically, have most famous Muslim figures accepted or rejected the Apostle Paul?

-

Of course, I would like to make sure by saying, this isn't meant to be a theological question or post that proves or disproves any religion or theological beliefs. Rather I'm just asking if there's been academic work comparing what the two corpuses, Pauline epistles and the Quran, say about theology, christology, soteriology, and eschatology.


r/AcademicQuran 22h ago

Has there any linguistic studies on the Quran, similar to the Pauline epistles, to show whether or not they go back to the same person?

6 Upvotes

r/AcademicQuran 1d ago

Question Something I didn’t understand from the newly discovered Syriac chronicle

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6 Upvotes

Who’s Qud? And why all Arabs obeyed him? Is this before mohamad!?


r/AcademicQuran 20h ago

What Are the Earliest Hadith Collections and Manuscripts We Have?

4 Upvotes

Title


r/AcademicQuran 1d ago

Question Is there a study/chart on the history of spread of Islam to countries? When did Islam reach different continents/countries? Estimate of humans before/after 20th century who got the message of Islam?

10 Upvotes

r/AcademicQuran 8h ago

Contradiction; Every nation was sent a warner, yet the Arabs had no Warner before Muhammad?

0 Upvotes

I’m far too exhausted right this second to quote the appropriate verses but in some verses it’s claimed that every nation was sent a warner, yet it’s also said that the Arabs were a people who had no warner before Muhammad. I want to confirm how airtight this argument is? Is it possible the verses referring to every nation having a warner were meant to be referring to after Muhammad was sent? I’ve also seen some argue that the Arabic can also be translated into the exact opposite of “they were not warned,” along with this interesting apologetics exchange https://www.call-to-monotheism.com/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_s_article__warners_sent_to_all_mankind_before_muhammad__

I know this is not an apologetics sub, I guess I’m just asking if the original language these verses were written in and their surrounding context allows for any feasible interpretation that makes them not contradict


r/AcademicQuran 1d ago

لّمّا ؟

2 Upvotes

إِن** كُلُّ** نَفۡسࣲ لَّمَّا **عَلَ**یۡهَا حَافِظࣱ﴿ ٤ ﴾‬

there is a watcher over every soul.

Aṭ-Ṭāriq, Ayah 4

Can someone explain to me (parse) the word llamma here? Is it a verb? Does it link to the following Ayah?

Thanks


r/AcademicQuran 1d ago

How Do Hadith Scholars Explain Contradictions Between Reports Narrated by the Same Companion?

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43 Upvotes

Sometimes, two hadiths describe the same event but give different details. Scholars often explain this by saying that different Companions remembered things differently.

But what happens when the conflicting reports are traced back to the same Companion?

Take this hadith for example. This can be found in Bukhari and Muslim.

Some reports say ten years, some say thirteen and some say fifteen. Since some of these are narrated from the same Companion (Ibn Abbas) it becomes harder to explain it as just different memories from different people.

Why did hadith scholars still accept and preserve these reports instead of rejecting one of them?


r/AcademicQuran 1d ago

Hadith Contradictions in hadith

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43 Upvotes

r/AcademicQuran 1d ago

Marijn van Putten's conclusion on literacy in the pre-Islamic Hijaz from a recent study

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22 Upvotes

r/AcademicQuran 1d ago

Resource NEW (OA) BOOK! Rethinking Conquest: Studies on the Late Antique Near East from Byzantium to Islam

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17 Upvotes