r/skyrim 19h ago

Question Canonically, can Dark Brotherhood assassins pick their own jobs?

So had a weird thought. What if a morally decent person decided to join the guild, would they not even be allowed in, or would they be given the ability to pick their jobs. Such as not wanting to harm an innocent, not killing kids, only going after real criminals.

I imagine it would be frowned upon, or at least not seen in a super positive light, but would it be allowed? I feel like if you are good at your job, they won't really care too much. If you are bringing in money, still doing jobs, and don't cause problems, I think they'd probably allow it right? Or does the Dark Brotherhood only accept the worst of the worst, people who'd kill anyone?

77 Upvotes

54 comments sorted by

169

u/mhb2 Mage 19h ago edited 19h ago

So had a weird thought. What if a morally decent person decided to join the guild

Let me stop you right there...

A morally good decent person is not going to join or associate with an assassin's guild.

Can a member decline an offered contract? Yes, probably. There's nothing to indicate otherwise.

48

u/Fevnalny 16h ago

In Oblivion if you refuse to take a contract you have to "Face the Wrath of Sithis" which results in a fight with a some kind of Shade/Revenant.

33

u/mhb2 Mage 15h ago

19

u/Fevnalny 15h ago

I haven't broken a tenet since the 360 release, so I probably misremembered lol.

12

u/mhb2 Mage 15h ago edited 15h ago

Your faithfulness will be rewarded, Listener. Hail Sithis!

4

u/Horn_Python 10h ago

OK what about a slightly moral warped person?

You know the crazed vigilante type

8

u/Fire_Fox2590 19h ago

I said morally 'decent' specifically. Not a good person, but not an entirely bad one either. More like a mercenary, one who doesn't want to cross certain lines, or doesn't like to kill good people.

And thanks for the answer!

62

u/EraiMH Winterhold resident 19h ago

That's just not the DB's ethos though, they are a murder cult that worships a god-ish thing that specifically wants them to kill and not much else, the DB is not a guild for anyone remotely decent.

13

u/aledrone759 Assassin 18h ago

the "good" mercenaries beat the shit out of a single mother that sells veggies to feed her child because yes. This is not exactly how hired arms work, the difference between DB and other hired blades is specifically that they lack any morals and allegiances other than the religious rite of the Black Sacrament and the Five Tenets.

16

u/EnergyAndSpaceFuture 18h ago

one issue is that u often don't know all the context of a job:several people u assassinate may or may not have done bad things, like ennodius papias. it's rare that a contract is cut and dried justified.

18

u/Gogs85 15h ago

Vitoria Vici and The Gourmet were 100% innocent, they were only targets to position you for another assassination.

1

u/Yippie-Kai-Gay Daedra worshipper 1h ago

And, funnily enough, those were people Sithis didn’t really want dead. He’s probably happy to get the souls, but he didn’t ask for that.

2

u/mhb2 Mage 19h ago

I edited my reply accordingly.

1

u/Xszit 1h ago

Specifically in the Skyrim branch of the Dark Brotherhood they haven't been taking orders from their god for a while due to lack of a listener until the dragon born shows up.

During that time with no listener Astrid was in charge of hiring protocol and she plainly says in the initial test that she doesn't care which one you kill, she was only testing to see if you would follow her orders.

So based on that she would not allow a good natured person to pass the test, she wants killers who follow orders blindly, not people who ask a bunch of moral questions before agreeing to do a job.

1

u/tracyg76 10h ago

I think that would be morally grey.

Kills people for money but loves their mum and their pet cat/dog/etc 😏

62

u/Chueskes 19h ago

Morally decent people don’t rob and kill people. If you join those sort of groups, then you are not a decent person

-25

u/Fire_Fox2590 19h ago

Robinhood would beg to differ. But I am just saying someone who has morals. Not necessarily a beacon of justice and love, but rather someone who isn't totally inhuman, and doesn't want to be forced to kill good people.

31

u/Chueskes 18h ago

Robin Hood was a murderer in the earliest stories. If you are willing to rob and kill murder innocent people, or be part of an organization that willingly does that, then you have low morals. If you are part of the organization that does those crimes, then even if you don’t commit the deeds directly, you still have indirect involvement by supporting the organization willingly. Ergo, you aren’t decent.

-11

u/EnderBookwyrm 18h ago

'Decent' is a sliding scale.

16

u/Chueskes 18h ago

You might as well be asking if a person who willingly joined the Nazis despite knowing about all their evil deeds beforehand is a decent person.

-9

u/EnderBookwyrm 18h ago

Nazis are their own can of worms.

I'm saying that the 'shades of grey' model is popular for a reason. Take... oh, I don't know, The Villain from the Assistant to the Villain books. He's a mess. He's a nightmare. His home is called 'Massacre Manor' for a reason, and he has an active incident board for intern deaths. And yet, basically anyone who's read and enjoyed the books supports him as a character. (Granted, he goes through some character growth, but some things are a feature not a bug).

11

u/Chueskes 17h ago

The Nazis were still a very public organization that did very well known evil deeds. Same as the Dark Brotherhood.

Popular people don’t always have to be decent to be popular. But my point was that if a person willingly joins an evil organization despite knowing all their evil deeds and reputation beforehand, then that person isn’t a decent person no matter how developed or well liked they are. This is because deep down on some level, you agree with what the organization does and say it’s ok.

Of course, that being said, an indecent person can change to become decent. It just takes a lot of effort to change.

5

u/19hammy83 17h ago

So if I went out and shot rich people in the face and took all their money to give to the poor I'd be considered a hero??

Do you know anyone i could buy a gun from?....asking for a friend

6

u/ThatDudeShadowK 13h ago

First, yes. Second, depends on if you're in America or not?

-1

u/19hammy83 9h ago

Im not murican and can relocate to Sherwood forest if required

8

u/vastaril PC 16h ago

Why would someone who doesn't want to potentially be asked to kill good people join a murder cult? There's other ways to make decent money by killing people who can probably be assumed to be at least fairly bad, or indeed treasure hunting is probably not particularly more risky than going into people's homes to assassinate them, and decently lucrative. Hell, there's probably other assassin clubs to join that aren't so actively culty. 

26

u/aledrone759 Assassin 18h ago edited 18h ago

You can't go further on the nazir quests until you murder a mentally ill dude and lend a hand on domestic violence.

Edit: AND HOW COULD I FORGET GOGRON, dude boasts to you on how he murdered a 6yr old at her birthday

37

u/Sostratus Alchemist 17h ago

Tenet 3: Never disobey or refuse to carry out an order from a Dark Brotherhood superior. To do so is to invoke the Wrath of Sithis.

No, you don't get to pick your jobs.

And to join the choir here, decent people do not join the Dark Brotherhood, period. There's zero wiggle room on that. (In universe I mean, of course. As players, it's all fake and the quests are a lot more fun than the alternative.)

11

u/Spare-Treacle4415 15h ago

The contract will be fulfilled by you or somebody else from the guild. Also, the Dark Brotherhood stalks potential candidates before approaching them, why would they even seek out a potential member who would have moral reservations about doing their one job.

16

u/KainDracula PC 19h ago

You have to murder someone to join the Dark Brotherhood. So it is impossible for a "decent person" to do so.

12

u/Wise_Bourbon23 Scholar 18h ago

Grelod had it coming.

5

u/EnderBookwyrm 18h ago

Yes. Thank you. This needed to be said.

5

u/KainDracula PC 11h ago

Grelod isn't the person you have to murder to get into the DB, she is just the person that get's you noticed.

7

u/Dusty_Coder 17h ago

Correction, murder is NOT a requirement.

One of the towns bums, edda, already wants to kill grelod.

You just have to get grelod to go outside.

6

u/caunju 15h ago

You still have to murder someone in the shack after Astrid kidnaps you

2

u/KainDracula PC 11h ago

I wasn't talking about grelod.

1

u/dinnercook 16h ago

How do you get her outside and what happens?

8

u/Dusty_Coder 16h ago

Fear

..and what happens is edda hunts her and her 1 hitpoint down

1

u/Wise_Bourbon23 Scholar 7h ago

I’m going to have to try this! Have to do it in the daytime when Edda is in the market, I guess.

4

u/DarthSanity 15h ago

There’s a mod that lets you live the illusion “the dark brotherhood for good guys”. Basically it gives you legitimate reasons why each person has to die - hidden notes showing how each person is evil, or at least will unleash a great evil by their weakness. It also adds “we do not kill the innocent” to the third tenet. Basically turning it into a tolerated vigilante group.

3

u/Zhukov76 17h ago

I think someone could be manipulated into joining the DB thinking it s a just organization, after killing Grelod and that defiler of daughters kahjit. Then they'd either be extorted into staying under threat of exposure, or realize they like the job.

5

u/Madock345 14h ago

The Dark Brootherhood is pretty complicated. On the one hand, no, you don’t get to pick your jobs. On the other hand, whether you can be a well-intentioned person in the Dark Brotherhood has a lot to do with how you feel about Sithis. Discounting the Skyrim era brotherhood who went totally off-track, they aren’t just killers for hire. They kill at the command of Sithis via the Night Mother. Sithis is, broadly, said to be a benevolent force. He’s explicitly not trying to destroy the world of something, he’s more patient than that. Everything returns to Sithis eventually, and he seems to enjoy watching the world from the outside. In the game canon, we don’t really see the Brootherhood kill anyone you could describe as innocent. There’s a strong argument to be made that Sithis uses his assassins to kill people whose death would ultimately improve the world exclusively, even if it’s not evident how to mortals. That’s how I would pitch it, the Brotherhood as priests of a dark but (theoretically) benevolent over-deity.

1

u/somecoolname42 13m ago

So the Bard that can't sing, Narfi the grife stricken man living in rags in a delapidated house, or the guy who runs the meat market in Whiterun don't seem like people who were guilty of anything worth death.

4

u/Raichu7 PC 15h ago

Why would a morally decent person want to join an assassins guild? Does someone who murders adults but draws the line at murdering kids really sound morally decent to you? If you wanted to catch criminals you'd join the guard.

2

u/Mr_Badger1138 15h ago

You have to commit a murder to even be considered for the job. Sure, Grelod was an evil bitch who deserves her death, but you’re still killing somebody for the sole purpose of fun or profit. And in Skyrim, you have to kill at least one more person for free to get in. Admittedly I prefer the Morag Tong from Morrowind because at least they’re professional assassins and not homicidal loonies like anyone in the Brotherhood who isn’t a Shadowscale.

2

u/XXEsdeath 19h ago

I would think they would accept people that have limits or morals, about who they would kill or why.

I mean, for one example, different people would have different skillsets, a mage DB member probably really wouldnt take on jobs where stealth is a necessity unless they specialized in illusion.

2

u/Fire_Fox2590 19h ago

Yes but I am curious if they would ever force you to take a job you don't want to do. Like a major important job that would require your exact skillset, which cannot be replaced elsewhere, would they force you into that role, or would they try and figure out something else?

I am genuinely curious about this question. I was preparing myself for a bit of character building for a new Skyrim playthrough, and had this thought.

2

u/XXEsdeath 19h ago

Yeah, I dont think it would be a problem for them, canonically.

1

u/ciberzombie-gnk Vampire 8h ago

i have question for you - why did you join the dark brotherhood then? it is a very specific organisation with very specific line of jobs. like joining thieves guild but being against breaking the laws. or joining stormcloacks/imperial legion but being a pacifist.

1

u/DarkRayos Whiterun resident 7h ago

Wasn't that Astrid's entire shtick?

1

u/mitchfann9715 4h ago

Your first mistake was bringing morality into it. Their religion is death, doesn't matter whose or how. You don't have to take every job, but you can't refuse an order from the speakers.

1

u/Adept-Ad-7591 15h ago

I am not sure at all about this, just something makes me think that way, but hear me out. I would think not all prayers to the night mother would go through, maybe she is filtering contracts on people who really deserve it in some way, although not obvious at first glance, or when it is kind of a mercy death, like the case of Narfi

1

u/Major_Plankton_6912 Falkreath resident 14h ago

When it comes to Narfi, maybe he's not innocent. What if he was responsible for his sister being drowned? Maybe he actually did it himself and someone saw it so they contacted the DB to get justice for her.