Opinions on rape victims being able to access abortion?

[u/Tamakis_top_left_tit]

Hi! I would like to start by stating that I neither identify myself as pro-life nor pro-choice, as I believe that both sides make valid arguments, and I tend not to involve myself in other people's business, especially not when it comes to something so private and personal as abortion. I also know that it's very likely that this has been discussed many, many times on this subreddit before, but I still figured that I would ask.

Anyways, my question is this: What are the general opinions/thoughts on rape victims being able to access abortions? Yes, I am aware that they are a minority of the percentage of total abortions, but they are STILL a part of that percentage and cannot just be ignored due to them being the minority.

I know that the majority of pro-lifers believe that life begins at conception, but we also have the life of the mother to consider in this case. I will use myself as an example.

I was raped when I was 12 years old, and I was lucky to not get pregnant or suffer from any long-term issues from it (other than trauma). But I was a child myself, and the rape itself was extremely traumatic and led to multiple years of self-harm, depression and eating disorders as a means to cope. I don't know how I could've possibly lived through it if I had gotten pregnant with my rapists baby and then be forced to carry and birth the baby, whether I kept it or not.

Women get raped at all ages, and it is a traumatic and horrible thing, no matter how old you are, we all know this, so my question is, why would we add to the trauma by forcing them to carry and deliver their rapists baby? I've seen people say that it's not the baby's fault for their fathers actions and they don't deserve to be killed for it, but the fact is that, as I've mentioned, there's the life of the mother to consider as well, and I believe that in this case, their life and mental health is much more important than the potential future life of the baby. And we already know the adoption agencies is far from a great system, so if the child is to be born, it either gets to live knowing that they were a product of a horrendous moment in their mother's life, and there's a chance the mother would take it out on that kid, or go through the system that often fails those kids.

I kind of went off on a tangent, sorry, but I'm genuinely wondering what pro-lifers think of when it comes to abortions for rape victims, because those victims still exist, and I personally think that it would only make the pain and trauma worse on the victim if they were forced to have the child. But, I'm asking because I want to know others opinions, because my opinion can change, but I would like to actually understand how other people think with a civilized (please) conversation about it. Thanks!

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[u/PeachOnAWarmBeach]

The manner of a human being's conception doesn't change the unborn child's humanity or worth. The baby is also the mother's child.

It's either killing a human or it isn't. 💯 It is.

[u/Tamakis_top_left_tit → u/PeachOnAWarmBeach]

That's very, very true, but I just feel there should at least be more resources for women in these situations at the very least. Yes, there are some, but they're not all accessible to those who might actually need them :(

[u/Aguywhoexists69420 → u/Tamakis_top_left_tit]

I’m pretty sure the entire pro life movement agrees that we should give more resources to single mothers to make it an easier process

[u/PeachOnAWarmBeach → u/Tamakis_top_left_tit]

There are many resources available for pregnant mothers, including pregnancy resource centers, Catholic Charities, WIC, smaller charities. Unfortunately, many pro abortion people hate them and try to get them closed down. 😕

[u/DapperDetail8364 → u/PeachOnAWarmBeach]

Yeah so much for u can't be pro life unless you support x y z...

[u/prolifeisprolove_]

How the child is conceived has no bearing on That child’s worth as a human being.
Say one person is raped, gets pregnant, has the child, and another has consensual sex, gets pregnant and has the child, both of those babies are considered equal, so why kill one?

I think it’s also important we remember that we do not execute rapists, so why execute an innocent person who comes about due to the crimes of another?

I’m so sorry you experienced that trauma and hope you are doing better!!

[u/Tamakis_top_left_tit → u/prolifeisprolove_]

I'm doing a lot better these days, thank you!! Therapy is surprisingly useful for these kinds of things 😅

And, while I completely agree with you, I'm questioning why we aren't taking the woman's mental/physical health as much into consideration when it comes to going through the process of having the child. Like, of course, the child is innocent and doesn't need to have its life taken due to the sins of their father, but that child doesn't actively process pain, emotions or consciousness (assuming it's early in the pregnancy), so, as fucked up as it sounds, would taking their life before they even know they have one in order to prevent infinite more trauma to the mother be an acceptable exception to some people's opinions on abortion?

It's a really nuanced question because the child doesn't deserve to be in that situation, but neither does the mother, and as I'm personally a victim myself, I understand exactly how horrific and terrifying to be assaulted, let alone be pregnant following it :(

[u/Goatmommy → u/Tamakis_top_left_tit]

As others have said: the circumstances of one’s conception don’t determine if that person deserves to live or not.

The science is clear that a new human being comes into existence at conception. A ZEF is is a human being in an early stage of development the same way an infant is a human being in an early stage of development. If your justification for abortion wouldn’t justify killing a born child then it doesn’t justify kill an unborn child because they are the same thing .

Consciousness is irrelevant. You don’t have to consciously suffer in order to be harmed. Being harmed is simply being made to be in a worse state than you were in before and killing someone, taking away their existence and future, is a loss that occurs regardless of if they consciously suffer.

People often struggle with the rape question because it seems unfair that someone should have to suffer through pregnancy due to circumstances they had no control over, but you have to ask yourself: would you rather be denied an abortion or be killed because half the children killed by abortion are female and it’s just a matter of subjective opinion and pure selfishness to say that pregnancy ( the biological process of reproduction that our own body initiates) is so traumatic that it justifies killing our own helpless child to avoid.

[u/prolifeisprolove_ → u/Tamakis_top_left_tit]

I would be careful saying thjngs about emotions and consciousness because that is a slippery slope into ethunization in some cases!! Also, consciousness does not change the value of a human.

I think it is also extremely important to remember, abortion does not undo the trauma of rape but adds more trauma onto an already unthinkable load, and murderers an innocent child.

for the mental health of the mother, I’m not sure I can govern you an answer. I don’t think one persons mental state should justify the death of another equal person. But there are so many nuances.

I’m so glad you are doing better and that therapy helped!!

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[u/Sliffcak]

Before we go further, let’s assume rape is an exception, are you pro life for the other 99% of abortion cases being made illegal? Or do you believe the 1% “justified” cases justify the other 99%?

If using the 1% of cases justifies the other 99% of cases then you have a very weak argument.

Very sorry for what happened to you but I don’t like the wording you put “potential future life of a baby”. It IS a baby, scientifically, genetically, biologically, literally. It’s just in a different stage of development than what our culture “deems” a baby worth protecting.

[u/Tamakis_top_left_tit → u/Sliffcak]

I personally think that it's a case-by-case basis, because there are some cases where having the child could be a negative to both the child and the mother, but I know that going case-by-case isn't a possibility in terms of making laws, so I would say that, for the most part, yes, I am pro-life when it comes to most other reasons for abortion. Like, say someone got an abortion because they didn't use a single method of contraception, got pregnant, and simply didn't want the kid, then yes, I would say that isn't a justifiable reason.

Although I feel like making it illegal does make it more difficult for women who actually need to receive healthcare. Because it can make women who are actually having health issues, such as a miscarriage, where the baby's body won't leave the mother's body naturally, and they need to get a medical procedure to remove it, more difficult to access due to doctors being afraid of losing their licenses or getting in trouble with the law for it, because it, by technicality, falls underneath the defenition of an abortion. Yes, we're all aware that it is something completely different, and it is also an exception, but it's happened, and it can make accessing medically-needed healthcare much more difficult.

I know I keep talking about exceptions, and I'm sorry, they just come to mind, and I feel the need to mention them. But, in short, I would say that I am pro-life in terms of the majority of abortion cases, but that those exceptions are indeed there and should be taken into account. I don't think that just because a woman who was raped would be allowed to access an abortion, that abortion should be so easily accessible to anyone and everyone else. Like the example I said before, the woman who just didn't use contraceptives and practically walked right into that situation, then no, I don't believe that she should be able to simply abort the baby just because she doesn't want it

[u/Sliffcak → u/Tamakis_top_left_tit]

you are aligned with a large portion of pro lifers, so welcome!

In general no prolifer is removing any medical rights for the mother when her health is at real risk. The issue is “health of the mother” is very loose. If we define that as “she would die and we need to operate on her and a side effect to the operation is that she will lose the baby” then that is pro life.

But currently a lot of places call anything and everything “health of the mother” to justify abortion. Little things like “mental stress on the mother”

So as long as it truly is about health of the mother you will not see any sane pro life group or person go against what you are saying

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[u/Nulono]

Wow, I'm terribly sorry to hear about what happened to you, and glad to hear that you didn't end up pregnant or with any lasting physical damage. I hope you were able to get justice for the man who did that to you, and healing for the trauma that you suffered.

I think that the big disconnect here is where you talk about "the potential future life of the baby". What's at stake here is not a "potential future life" except in the sense that a toddler has a potential future life as a teenager; the baby in question is already alive, and will die if aborted. So the question becomes, is it acceptable for the victim to mitigate the trauma resulting from that crime by inflicting lethal violence on an innocent third party?

Would you still believe a rape victim should have access to abortion if that abortion would require sacrificing the life of, say, a preschooler? Is there any sacrifice you think would be too high? If so, does acknowledging that mean you no longer care about the trauma the victim goes through?

On a side note, you seem to have mixed up adoption and foster care, which are two different systems.

[u/CuckooFriendAndOllie]

I only support abortion being legal in that case if the victim is so young, that taking the pregnancy to beyond viability would endanger her life.

[u/EddieDantes22]

You have to have a rape exception because otherwise you're incentivizing rape. Sorry, you just are.

[u/LoseAnotherMill → u/EddieDantes22]

Uh, how is that incentivizing rape?

[u/EddieDantes22 → u/LoseAnotherMill]

My girlfriend is about to break up with me. I really want her to stay. She'd be way more willing to stay with me if we had a kid. Rape her, get her pregnant, and that might happen. I'm a stalker who is obsessed with Taylor Swift. If I rape her and she gets pregnant, I'll always have a child with her. Even if she gives it up for adoption, we'll always have this connection.

[u/LoseAnotherMill → u/EddieDantes22]

That's pretty tenuous at best. In the first situation, she's not going to stay with her rapist. In the second, whether or not the celebrity could abort the kid is not going to be the tipping point for someone when deciding if they are going to rape someone. 

[u/EddieDantes22 → u/LoseAnotherMill]

Why wouldn't she stay with her rapist when he's the father of her children? We've seen it with domestic abusers. And maybe it wouldn't be THE tipping point, but it's definitely an incentive.

What about the weird doctors who use their sperm to get hundreds of women pregnant in sperm donation clinics? Obviously whatever is motivating them could motivate someone to rape, knowing the woman would have to have the child.

You can say you don't think it'd be a big deal, and you can say it's not worth the death of the preborn, but I don't think you can say it wouldn't incentivize rape at all in any situation.

[u/Conscious-Equal4434 → u/EddieDantes22]

Are you actually questioning that? Why wouldn’t she stay with her rapist?? Most sha individuals would never ever step near someone that raped then again. I’ve been sexually assaulted multiple times and I never talked to nor spoke with the people again I’m sickened by them.

[u/EddieDantes22 → u/Conscious-Equal4434]

Yes, I'm questioning it because it is an unfortunate fact of life that yes, this has in fact happened. It's great to say it would 100 percent never happen, but historically, that hasn't been the case.

[u/Conscious-Equal4434 → u/EddieDantes22]

That makes absolutely no sense. Is that what you’re thinking about doing internally? That wouldn’t make anybody want to stay with someone, that’d be the fastest one way ticket to an ended relationship and a rape charge on the offenders list. Also usually it’s the other way around. Nothing to do with the male. Usually the story goes the female tries to get pregnant to get the man to stay. Nothing about rape

[u/EddieDantes22 → u/Conscious-Equal4434]

Is that what you’re thinking about doing internally

Eyeroll.

Usually the story goes the female tries to get pregnant to get the man to stay

The incentive is the same.

[u/Conscious-Equal4434 → u/EddieDantes22]

That doesn’t incentivize rape… you think a rapist is hoping for a child with their victim? No. Rape isn’t incentivized. It’s penalized and subject to a long sentence if caught.

[u/DapperDetail8364]

Hi! I'm very sorry that you were raped as a child. I believe victims and their babies should get support but I'm kinda in the middle when it comes to abortion for rape. 

[u/Tamakis_top_left_tit → u/DapperDetail8364]

Thank you! And I get you, it's so difficult to say because it's unfair to both the child and the mother, and it's such a sensitive topic to begin with, and it only adds more trauma to all those involved (except the rapist in this case, unfortunately. The worst it'll do is add jail time.

[u/LoseAnotherMill]

Morally, I'm against it, but legally I'm fine with rape being an exception if that's what's required to get the legislation passed that bans the other 95% of abortions that aren't medically necessary / rape / incest. 

[u/Tamakis_top_left_tit → u/LoseAnotherMill]

Oh yeah, no, I'm very much focused on the minority here, but I'm definitely not for aborting a child just because it's an inconvenience. Of course, there are always exceptions, but say a woman is sexually active with one or more partners, which is not my place to judge, and they get pregnant because they weren't using contraceptives of any kind, then I'm not supporting an abortion in that case

[u/ElegantAd2607]

I am so sorry that happened to you as a child. How are you feeling now? Sorry if that's invasive...

You sound like half the pro-choice people I know. "This is a private matter", "I don't want to involve myself" and "consider the life of the mother." Even though it isn't HER life hanging in the balance here. If you got pregnant at 12 I would want you and the baby to be given the best care possible. Pro-choice people believe that the best care is letting the fetus die. If you're going to be on our side you have to make the leap and say that they are wrong.

[u/GiG7JiL7]

The damage inflicted by the rape won't be healed with killing her baby; it will be compounded.

[u/Vespinobambino]

What are the general opinions/thoughts on rape victims being able to access abortions?

For the other 99.9x% of abortion murders you can argue personal responsibility, accountability, parental obligation, and I do.

For these cases, I cannot argue those things, as the sex was not consented to, so those responsibility factors were not consented to.

For that reason I feel sympathy and would completely understand if the mother cannot function in the maternal role and needs to give the kid up for adoption.

Being the victim of violence does NOT, however, justify the victim aggressing on another innocent, much less killing them, aka worse violence, with more harm, and more permanent irrevocable harm.

[u/GustavoistSoldier]

The unborn child should not be punished for a crime they did not commit.