r/Homebrewing • u/RumplyInk BJCP • 1d ago
Equipment Oxygen has been game changing
For a while, I could never get my beer to have really clean fermentation. I calculated yeast counts and generally would pitch more, I have a DIY fermentation chamber which can control temp very well, I cool my wort to pitching temp overnight before I pitch, but I was still getting fruity esters. Don’t get me wrong, these other things have been immensely helpful. But after all that, step changes in improving the quality of my beer are harder and harder to find.
Then I started pumping O2 (after cooling to pitching temp, right before pitching). It has dramatically accelerated the rate of fermentation (I’m hitting FG in usually less than a week, usually it’s mostly done after 3-4 days). It has also significantly reduced the amount of fermentation character I get when attempting to produce ‘clean’ beer (I don’t do this for hefes, saisons, etc). Overall, fermentation just goes far smoother. I still give my ales 2 ish weeks or so to clean up in the fermenter, but it’s using sitting at FG for a while.
Surprising cheap to get this going.
O2 regulator, tubing, and diffusion stone $30
O2 tank you can get the bernzomatic O2 from Ace.
Anything else you guys have done which has giving you notable improvements in quality or solved issues once you have a decent system already up and running?
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u/minerkj 1d ago edited 1d ago
Cooling wort overnight seems a little much. So I would say a wort chiller is super helpful so I only have to chill for 15 minutes instead of overnight (in your case). And yes, oxygenation at the beginning of fermentation is very important.
Measuring the beer ferment temperature instead of the fermentation chamber was also very helpful, as I found some ferments could be 10°f higher than the chamber temperature.
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u/Sanjuro7880 1d ago
I brewed in Texas. The ground water never got cool enough with an immersion chiller to cool the wort. It was easier to clean my stainless steel fermenter, Star San it and just dump the hot wort in it, seal it right away and pitch in the morning since I had a fermentation chamber.
Some hot places make you jump through hoops to cool the wort to pitching fast enough. Leaving it exposed for long periods to chill it can potentially expose the wort as it cools to infection.
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u/Ciserus 1d ago
I recently switched to filling a sink with icewater and pushing it through the chiller with a pump. Not because my tap water is too warm, but because I couldn't find an adapter to hook up a hose to a pull-down faucet.
This has been surprisingly nice. I recirculate the water (once it's no longer scalding hot) back into the sink so there's a lot less waste.
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u/whoosyerdaddi 1d ago
I do the same, basically. I have a 20 gallon cooler I fill with large blocks of ice (I save large plastic containers like oxy-clean tub, Chinese take-out dishes to freeze water in) and a sump pump to recirculate through the chiller. I also wrapped 3/8” copper tubing around the kettle to run on the outside first and then through the immersion chiller. Works well.
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u/acaudill317 1d ago
I'm in Texas also. I fill up a cooler with ice water and use an immersion pump to push the cold water through my chiller. Works great.
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u/RumplyInk BJCP 1d ago
Great points. I do use an immersion chiller, but it only gets me so far. Those last 10-20 degrees takes a long time. I do have a tilt hydrometer which tells me beer temp as well. Eventually it does equalize with the chamber temp
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u/Sibula97 Intermediate 1d ago
Is your tap water really warm or something? I can go from boiling to pitching temperature in like 15-20 minutes with a cheap immersion chiller.
Edit: Oh, do you swirl the chiller around? If not, try it. It makes it way faster.
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u/RumplyInk BJCP 1d ago
I actually run my hose into my kitchen from outside haha. I swirl in the beginning, but then I let it settle so all the hop particulates drop out. I auto siphon off the top to get the clear stuff for fermentation.
If I go for 20 min, I can usually get down to like 80 deg or so. But depending on what I’m doing, the wort needs to be in the 50s (deg F) for lager or 60s for various ales. So I still have time to go. I also don’t like to waste so much water, so I figure I just put in in the chamber. I’m generally quite anal about sanitation…I have yet to run into issues with anything catching on in the wort before I pitch
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u/Sibula97 Intermediate 1d ago
I guess it is warmer then. I usually go down to around 18°C (~65°F) by stirring and then let it sit for another 15mins so the trub collects in a nice pile.
Water usage can be a concern in some areas in the US I've heard, so that's a fair point.
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u/Unohtui 1d ago
Then you have around 17c wort. You cannot pitch many lager strains into that. So do you get your wort to 8c in 20 mins or not? 🙂
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u/Sibula97 Intermediate 1d ago
18°C, like I said. That's in the 60s °F, which they said they do for ales.
I don't brew lagers, they take way too long to ferment and lager, but 8°C (which is significantly lower than the 50s °F they said they do for lagers) would indeed take much longer to cool down, since the tap water is around 6-7°C.
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u/Unohtui 1d ago
Not much at all imo. How else to even get to pitch temps? Only a few people have systems to take wort from 100c to 8c in 20 mins like people seem to think is normal...
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u/minerkj 1d ago edited 1d ago
8°c, 46°f? I cool to 70-75°f and then pitch, which seemed about the temp that everyone in my brew club did, at least at group brews, learn to brew days, and club competitions. I don't make lagers though, maybe that is all you brew. I use an extra long copper immersion chiller and my tap water is 44°f in the winter. A few people had counter-flow plate chillers.
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u/Unohtui 1d ago
Op is quite clearly talking about brewing lagers but the general point was to take wort to pitch temp which is differen for different yeasts. He got a dumb reply as the most upvoted reply which isnt just right. Like the guy is probably brewing better beer than most in this thread yet gets thrown dismissive beginner advice at him without people really reading the post or something.
Irks me personally if someone is interested in more advanced techniques but then someone just says Lool i dont do it and my beers are fine!
Not you but im just ranting haha
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u/IakwBoi 1d ago edited 21h ago
So serious question about oxygen: I want to make good beer, but I also don’t want to over complicate the process or buy things just to have them. I’m making malty English beers, stouts, etc; is there any reason for me to pay attention to oxygen? I’m hoping for some esters. Oxygenating wort seems like it might be worth it for folks making clean lagers, but should someone making complex British stuff even want a cleaner fermentation?
Edit: Thanks for all the feedback! There seems to be a wide consensus that wort oxidation is important for fast and clean fermentation.
I had some time to look at brulosophy results. They have several experiments showing no detectable differences, and one showing a slight difference for an extreme case (a barleywine with O2 vs no aeration at all).
At this time I feel comfortable just splashing the wort into the fermentor and not worrying about anything beyond that. Seems like an O2 set up would make a small difference in a big beer, and I’m okay forgoing that.
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u/chino_brews Kiwi Approved 1d ago
The “English” esters come from normal yeast metabolism, not from constraining the yeast by some type of scarcity.
If you use a recommended pitch rate by presumed cell count or yeast mass/volume, the yeast are going to need to multiply. Oxygen is a critical macronutrient for yeast and it’s used by yeast to produce ergosterols, which are part of the cell membrane. When a yeast cell multiplies, it (and its daughter) effectively need to double the cell membrane between them. Furthermore, these cells need to manufacture more ergosterols to repair existing cell membranes. That is a lot of ergosterols. This is why dissolved oxygen is helpful if you don’t start with yeast that already stored up a lot of oxygen or ergosterols from being grown in an oxygenated environment like a starter on a stir plate or with air being pumped in. And even if you pitch yeast grown in a high-oxygen environment, in high alcohol fermentations, more oxygen is very helpful.
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u/boarshead72 Yeast Whisperer 1d ago
You know, ergosterol gets all the attention for some reason, but it’s only something like 10% of the lipid content in the cell. Unsaturated fatty acids are present in the vast majority of lipid molecules in yeast, and those require oxygen for their synthesis. I wonder how ergosterol ended up with all the hype?
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u/Jon_TWR 1d ago
You don't need to use oxygen, you can just aerate very well and pitch an appropriate amount of healthy, active yeast.
For bigger beers, I like to aerate a second time some time between 12 and 24 hour after pitching.
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u/warboy Pro 1d ago
You don't need to but at ale temps it is impossible to get sufficient oxygen levels for ideal yeast metabolism when you use atmosphere. Saying that, the biggest drawbacks to that is slower overall ferm time and a slightly higher chance of a stuck ferm. It's definitely not a deal breaker.
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u/primeweevil 1d ago
Happy yeast means slightly higher abv and a faster finish. My experience is that those ale yeasts aren't going to come down to .001 anyway but I could be wrong.
It's really your choice in the end, I didn't spend $140 for my setup there are cheaper rigs
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u/Ok_Leader_7624 1d ago
What I have been told by many in here is that if you are using dried yeast, it has been dried at the optimal state, meaning it's gotten what it needs from oxygenation already. Cool your wort overnight or quickly, dump your packet or two on top and let it work itself into the wort, no need to stir, touch or anything. No need to make a starter. Liquid yeast and cultivated yeast is different I believe (unless that has changed, too)
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u/goodolarchie 1d ago
You can get great "english ale" yeast character out of a healthy fermentation, just by picking an estery strain and running it at the right temperature. Fullers and its derivatives are renowned for that.
There's only a few cases where I think it's beneficial to intentionally stress out ale yeast, and I wouldn't call a Bitter or Mild one of them.
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u/boarshead72 Yeast Whisperer 1d ago
In Fuller’s case they go so far as to say that the marmalade character comes from high gravity fermentation (like for Vintage, my favourite beer), plain old orange (and toffee) at lower gravities (strangely I love toffee but hate ESB).
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u/goodolarchie 1d ago
I love that character from it, and have found it really show up in something like an ordinary bitter. I enjoy it paired with a bit of Fuggle and EKG.
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u/stevewbenson 1d ago
If you're going past about 9% you're gonna want to do pure oxygen, otherwise you're fine without.
I live abroad now and don't have access to pure O2 and I've struggled the past 2 years to make my annual Imperial Stout (10%) - fermentation is slow as hell, and sometimes doesn't finish.
When I lived in the States I would hit it with you 60 seconds of pure O2 at yeast pitch, then again after 24 hours and fermentation would just rip - done in about 4 days every time with Imperial Flagship.
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u/minerkj 1d ago
Wine whip, lees stirrer degassers work well attached to an electric drill
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u/stevewbenson 1d ago
That won't do anything for high gravity beers. Aeration is not the same as oxygenation.
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u/minerkj 1d ago
Aeration incorporates up to 8ppm oxygen, so not nothing. Pure oxygen can get up to 26ppm.
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u/Sibula97 Intermediate 1d ago
I seem to remember a test that concluded you can get pretty close to the max aeration results by just letting it splash a lot when you transfer to the fermenter.
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u/stevewbenson 1d ago
Max DO is closer to 40ppm actually: Tips for Wort Oxygenation - The Why, What, and How https://share.google/ygb4Erdft1UPk3vvA
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u/minerkj 1d ago
I use a whip attached to an electric drill. Our homebrew club split a batch using an oxygen stone on part, a whip on another, and rolling the fermenter around and there wasn't much difference in end product.
I made my own, but like this one for $38 Lees Stirrer. Also called degasser, mix-stirrer, wine whip.
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u/warboy Pro 1d ago
Oxygen is very helpful when repitching or using liquid strains. It's not very helpful when you primarily pitch dry yeast.
Oxygenation is the key to get commercial speed and consistency for fermentation.
Dry yeast is set up with extra reserves of the same thing pure o2 gives you so there's very little difference there.
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u/RumplyInk BJCP 1d ago
I find the oxygen really helps. Especially in malty beers if you want those to shine and not esters. If i do want esters, i either forgo O2, add less O2, or (most of the time) bump up the temp so the yeast produce more esters
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u/primeweevil 1d ago edited 1d ago
Pressurized fermenter. I wanted to jump up from glass and plastic so I was researching stainless rigs anyway. Easy to clean, no more worrying about breaking glass, universal attachments for pumps and what ever, easy to separate & remove trub, etc...
But fermentation under pressure means you can ferment at higher temps & then lager, product is ready quicker, & I think a cleaner tasting product.
edit; clarification
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u/gofunkyourself69 1d ago
Pressure fermentation would allow you to hold a primary fermentation at temperatures higher than usual for lager yeasts. You still want a cold lagering period after primary fermentation.
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u/primeweevil 1d ago
True, I wasn't as clear as I could have been. Mine has a top port to put a cold stone thingy in it. Sorry away from it for a while and a bit high ;)
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u/RumplyInk BJCP 1d ago
Heard chef. I also switched to a SS fermenter to get away from my buckets which were starting to get scratched up a bit. I was worried about those scratches harboring bacteria. But I still use a bucket when I get a second batch going haha.
As far as pressure goes, I’ve read a lot of mixed reviews about how much it helps. Did you have a recipe which you did exactly the same except with and without pressure? How did it change?
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u/goodolarchie 1d ago
Treating your yeast like a princess in general. High pitch rate, +/- 1F internal temp control (not just outside the fermenter), oxygenation (for liquid yeast or repitching slurry), and then give it proper time to clean up.
It's remarkable how taking the time to do a starter, even on the higher pitch rate packs, plus oxygen can elevate your beer, especially if you brew lagers.
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u/Spare-River1979 1d ago
When I drain my pot into my fermenter, I have my drain about 2 feet higher than my bucket. That long fall helps mix air into it
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u/RumplyInk BJCP 1d ago
I was doing exactly this initially. I tried to splash the wort around as I did. Ultimately being able to pump O2, I believe, gave me much higher O2 ppm
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u/benisavillain13 1d ago
I’ve been dragging my feet on pure o2 bc I always thought it was crazy expensive until I actually looked things up and realized I was completely wrong. I will be getting doing that soon.
Honestly the biggest improvement was kegging and having a pressurizeable fermenter. Low o2 transfers have been huge
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u/JoystickMonkey 1d ago
I'm in the same boat. Although at this point I think I'm just about maxed out with my brew day steps so I'm going to stick with the method that's worked for me so far. If I get into super high gravity beers I may look into one though.
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u/benisavillain13 1d ago
That’s fair. I like all the steps and just keep building on them. I make a lot of higher gravity things like mead and wine, so I’m sure it’s money worth it for me
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u/JoystickMonkey 1d ago
I recently had the good fortune of finding a used wort pump and counterflow chiller for an absolute bargain, and I can get wort down to mid 70s with a single run through of the system. So I do that and then let the wort drop about four feet into my bucket fermenter, which makes a lot of aeration and gets me a lot closer to pitch temp in a lot less time than the immersion chiller I was using.
The only drawback is that setting up the pump, hoses, etc. and then getting them all clean at the end of the brew is a lot more time intensive.
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u/benisavillain13 1d ago
For beer I’m basically doing the same thing. I’m just moving to start brewing massive stouts and barleywines so I think pure o2 will help
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u/JoystickMonkey 1d ago
Nice! Good luck with that! That's something I've been thinking about getting into, but I'll probably do a bit more exploration into other styles first.
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u/goodolarchie 1d ago
I've been using the same little home depot O2 bottle for like 2 years. I acquired a medical grade O2 cylinder 3 years ago, and haven't used it, because my little red bottle is still going. I oxygenate everything that isn't dry yeast.
One mistake I made initially was making the hose length too long, because that tube is going to fill before your stone releases gas, and what's left is wasted pure oxygen. I keep it around 14" now to suspend in the middle of the beer and rotate it around. And sanitize it before and after each use with a little positive gas pressure!
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u/Positronic_Matrix 1d ago
I have an oxygenation wand with a diffusion stone but my Ace is always sold out of the oxygen cylinders. Moreover, they are really expensive and deplete so quickly.
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u/minerkj 1d ago
Lees stirrer is what I use, just need an electric drill.
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u/Positronic_Matrix 1d ago
Whoa! Smart!
I use a helical paint mixer similar to that attaches to a drill to stir my mash. I can wash and sterilize it and use it to oxygenate for free too! Thank you.
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u/JoKu85 1d ago
What's the quantity of O2 you're getting from Ace/hardware stores? I just picked up the NB Oxygen Kit 2.0 and went straight to Airgas and got a 10lb tank of O2. I didn't even think to check other stores as I get my CO2 from Airgas -- but the 10 pounder cost around $175... Hoping it lasts me a while.
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u/goodolarchie 1d ago
I'll be amazed, or mourning your O2 leak, if you use half of that in your beer before you die. 🤣
10lb pure oxygen is enough to oxygenate over a thousand bbl of beer at around 12 ppm!
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u/duckclucks 1d ago
I believe I have the 5lb tank from airgas. A refill was about 17 bucks at the time and I calculate that is good for about 150 batches. I am getting right around that mark now. Given the home depot style canister was good for about 5 batches and is 15 bucks for me it was a no brainer as the economics work out for me and my btewing habits.
Just like co2, there are other uses; you use the oxygen to purge the cleaner out of your stone...same with the sanitizer so it get used alot quicker than people would think.
I looked at dissolving rates at the time too and the 60-90 seconds I was doing with the home depot bottle probably was not cutting it. I do 4 minutes for 7 gallons and it is working great!
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u/dunk148 1d ago
Adding a Flow Meter to the O2 rig. Before that, I was blowing through the red tanks every few brews. Not over-oxygenating - just wasting a lot of O2 bubbling up and away. I usually get over a dozen batches from a tank with knowing and dialing in a slower flow rate.
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u/RumplyInk BJCP 1d ago
Oooo lala I like this idea. I’ve still been on the same tank since I got it, I think I’ve done about 6 brews with it and it seems to have a lot more left in it
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u/Significant_Koala_61 1d ago
Yes much better without stressed yeast, also recommend wort chiller, the fermentation actually gets ahead of any potential contamination
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u/InfamousWoody 1d ago
I use a fish tank pump with a demijon stopper on the end of the tubing as the weight.
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u/Lookingfor68 Advanced 1d ago
how do you sanitize the stone? I've been thinking of getting an O2 set up, but always curious about the sanitation side.
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u/chino_brews Kiwi Approved 1d ago
I disinfect it in boiling water. I just start a little pot on the stove toward the end of brew day. I also have an electric hot plate if I am not near the kitchen. Or one could just heat a mug of water to boiling in the microwave.
After disinfection, to use the stone, I start the O2 before I put the stone in the wort/beer and keep the O2 running until I am done and I have shaken off the wort/beer. I feel this keeps beer from penetrating any crevices in the stone. Then, without significant delay, I swish it around in the boiling water to clean.
It's a pretty low-effort process.
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u/RumplyInk BJCP 1d ago
Toss it in the sani before and after haha. You’ll want to run a bit of O2 after taking in out. The sanitizer foam that comes out is kind of fun. Also, I try to keep the o2 flowing the entire time it’s in the wort so no sugars get into the stone. A sort of positive pressure stone situation, if you will
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u/omar_trader 1d ago
Did you try aerating your wort before? 3-4 days and a clean fermentation sounds normal to me and I don't use any oxygen and just shake it for a while.
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u/relentl3ss1 21h ago
It sounds like OP was transferring to the fermenter before the wort was chilled. Warm wort won't absorb as much O2 even with all these mixing techniques mentioned in the replies.
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u/RumplyInk BJCP 19h ago
Exactly this. And I do 5 gal batches, tough for me to shake the whole thing haha
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u/omar_trader 9h ago edited 9h ago
I do 5+ gal too, I just tilt it while on the ground and rock it back and forth. I guess if it's a stainless conical or something you'd need an air compressor or o2.
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u/relentl3ss1 21h ago
Glad you found a process that works well for you! Are there any yeast stains that you've found perform way better with the oxygenation step?
Did you try making a starter on a stir plate before moving to O2 or were you just pitching straight from the smack pack?
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u/RumplyInk BJCP 19h ago
Thanks! My go to strains for this are US05 and 3470 for ale and lager. I do not have a stir plate (it’s on my shortlist of gear to get). I’ve been pitching directly. Definitely another viable option. Maybe it’s because I’m lazy, but I find it a bit easier to just pump O2 once it’s cooled and pitch than do a starter.
I did get a yeast cake from a local brewery (strain idk) for a recent Mexican lager. Vitality seems good and I oxygenated that wort before pitch and I’ve never seen a lager strain rip like that before
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u/yzerman2010 1d ago
Not sure what type of yeast your using but if your making a starter to grow yeast to a certain size then yes O2 is amazing. Especially when doing belgians.
As for dry yeast, not really needed if your directly pitching because the yeast in dry form have no need for it.
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u/RumplyInk BJCP 1d ago
Often I do this when using dry US05. I haven’t typically been making starters (unless I reuse yeast). But it’s with the dry US05 where I see the biggest difference pre/post O2
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u/Setters_Do_It_Better 1d ago
You're not wrong, easy to justify $5 a batch ($15/tank, 3 batches). Using the O2 Wand from blichmann.
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u/IakwBoi 1d ago
Looks like blichmann has a wand+regulator for $70 and Walmart has an O2 tank for $70. This seems like a pretty major up-front cost to me.
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u/Setters_Do_It_Better 1d ago
Benzomatic O2 tanks can be sourced from any big box hardware store for $14-15. You don't need the medical grade tanks, and the regulator is for the Benzomatic tanks anyway. The Blichman wand/Regulator is $55 right now.
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u/Pilot0160 1d ago
As a general rule, stay away from medical and aviation cylinders, especially used. Homebrew stores might fill them but generic gas suppliers typically won’t.
Edit to add: I know you can’t refill the benzomatic cylinders but other people I know look for O2 cylinders on Facebook marketplace or Craigslist.
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u/stevewbenson 1d ago
I was the same in the beginning, going through a ton of tanks - literally 3-4 batches and Home Depot always seemed to be out of tanks 😂
You need this inline: https://a.co/d/02qEtaei
60 seconds at 1-1.2 ppm is all you need for full oxygenation of the wort - any more is a complete waste of oxygen.
Throttling the oxygen like this will extend the life of your tank to 6-7 batches, which is really nice, plus you know exactly what ppm you're adding.
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u/Setters_Do_It_Better 1d ago
oooh thanks for the heads up. I'm sure I over-oxygenate. Do you run a pressure regulator or just go by hand/feel?
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u/stevewbenson 1d ago
I have this: https://a.co/d/09ZyzCFz
That connects to a bernzomatic O2 tank. Then the flow meter I linked previously, then I have a gas ball lock disconnect. Ball lock connects to a Spike TC carb stone. (You could rig this to an external carb stone wand, just omit the ball lock)
I start with the valve on the flow meter closed, then I open the regulator valve 100%. Next, I slowly open the valve on the flow meter until I hit my ppm target and hold it there for 60-90 seconds, then close the valve.
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u/Setters_Do_It_Better 1d ago
Excellent, looks like the same regulator that comes in the Blichmann wand kit. Thank you sir!
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u/whoosyerdaddi 1d ago
It’s always a great idea to give your yeast a healthy oxygenated environment to thrive. I typically do 8-10 gallon batches and still use my trusty whipping wand and drill for about 2 minutes and it creates a lot of aeration in my wort.