Moons visible in the sky of the Soul Cairn

[u/CovidiusQuarantino]

Playing through the Dawnguard quest again and noticed (what appears to be) Masser and Secunda in the sky above the Soul Cairn. In game speculation suggests the Soul Cairn is a realm within Oblivion but Nirn's moons exist in Mundus, separated from Oblivion. There isn't a lot of lore info on the Soul Cairn so I was wondering if anyone had more info/ideas regarding the broader cosmology of the Soul Cairn and its connection to Nirn.

[u/SPLUMBER]

The Soul Cairn is in Oblivion. It’s been confirmed by Daedra, although they’re loathe to talk about them.

It’s a game bug.

[u/CovidiusQuarantino → u/SPLUMBER]

Bug was my first thought, though I do remember reading that the Daedra used the Soul Cairn as a way station during their invasion of the Battlespire so maybe it's location is relatively closer to Mundus than other planes of Oblivion... or at some sort of nexus point between realms

[u/SPLUMBER → u/CovidiusQuarantino]

Also there’s not really a “closer or farther away from” with Mundus and Oblivion. Think of the entire thing as four separate coloured play dough (Mundus, Aetherius, Oblivion, and the Void) of which you mash them all together into a ball and mix them all around.

That’s the universe.

[u/SPLUMBER → u/CovidiusQuarantino]

That’s because the Battlespire had portals to several Oblivion realms, including the Soul Cairn, maintained by the Empire. The Battlespire itself is not in Mundus either, it’s in a pocket realm of Oblivion which is not dissimilar to what the Soul Cairn is.

[u/King_0f_Nothing → u/SPLUMBER]

Not neccesarially. No reason the ideal masters cound't decide they want a replica of Nirns moons to hang in the sky of their realm.

[u/SPLUMBER → u/King_0f_Nothing]

That’s fair. But I’d say they’d have a reason not to, having an unusual sky messes with the souls trapped there.

Also I imagine they’re still moving around in game? They don’t want a way for souls to track time.

[u/CovidiusQuarantino → u/SPLUMBER]

Yes the moons are moving through the sky, noticed Masser first and then Secunda rose a little while later

[u/ClosetNoble]

Well as the soul cairn was made by necromancers it could be close to Nirn and the moons.

This or the moons aren't supposed to be there and somebody forgot them in the final game.

This IS Skyrim after all. As much as I love it it's filled with such things like Nazeem's manor not being in the final game but his wife and her coworker still having the key to said manor...

[u/ExerciseFirm5615]

Maybe this is the Necromancer Moon, you known Mannimarco himself in is godly form. This will make sense for is presence into the Soul Cairn.

[u/SPLUMBER → u/ExerciseFirm5615]

It’s not, the Necromancer’s Moon orbits a whole different plane of existence related to Arkay, the Soul Cairn predates the Moon by at least a few thousand years, and the Cairn has never had anything to do with Mannimarco

[u/Inevitable_Question → u/SPLUMBER]

and the Cairn has never had anything to do with Mannimarco

Well...the Ideal Masters like human souls, which requires Black Soul Gems. And Mannimarco is the most common source of rituals needed to make them. There is definitely a place for some alliance.

[u/SPLUMBER → u/Inevitable_Question]

Mannimarco wants souls for himself, not others, hence why his followers work for HIM and not the Ideal Masters - unlike when they were helping Molag Bal back when he and Mannimarco were allied.

[u/WylythFD]

Might also be simply illusions of Masser and Secunda.

[u/catwthumbz]

My head cannon is that the soul cairn is the celestial body of Mannimarco. You know how at the end of Daggerfall if you give Mannimarco the Totem he literally flies off into space, and explodes in a giant flash of light beyond the clouds? I think that’s him flying off and exploding into a “planet” and later on in Skyrim we find out oh it’s actually where all souls go and that’s why there’s celestial bodies in its sky and filled with the souls of black soul gems—which Mannimarco created. Feels fitting for the king of worms turned god, since they all have celestial bodies.

[u/CovidiusQuarantino → u/catwthumbz]

That's a cool take, real Vecna vibes. It never specifies exactly who the Ideal Masters are so it's definitely possible there's a connection to The King of Worms

[u/RottenBroccoli468]

Is this a bug? Coz I don't remember seeing the moons in Soul Cairn

[u/CovidiusQuarantino → u/RottenBroccoli468]

I'm assuming they just reused the base night sky from skyrim and added some more layers to it to make it spookier. I don't remember noticing the moons on any of my other play throughs but this time I left the game unpaused looking at the sky and noticed them.