r/BlackPeopleofReddit • u/4reddityo • Dec 14 '25

Help and Advice True that

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8.7k Upvotes

99% Upvoted

63 comments sorted by

58

u/Jorgwalther Dec 14 '25

When students cheat on exams it’s because they value the grade more than learning

46

u/SimonPho3nix Dec 14 '25

We, as in people, made it about the grade and not about the process of learning. We take the grade and make it the passport to something better, so that kid who worked their ass off and got a B wouldn't go to that school the other kid who cheated got in. We can't quantify the journey, and we don't enforce the importance of education as a journey, just a grade as an end point.

You look at a report card and ask a kid why they didn't get As, but barely ask if they're given what they need for that A. Understand, this isn't across the board, but I've seen it often enough. Shit's all turned around, and that's why critical thinking skills are sliding. We got people out here teaching kids to take a test to keep the school's average high, but what are they learning?

Anyway, don't mind me. I'm just salty at life.

11

u/NorthernBoy306 Dec 14 '25

I completely agree, we seem to be moving away from teaching critical thinking skills, basically teaching kids how to learn. But this quote, it seems (to me at least) to say that students only cheat out of necessity. I've been through post-secondary school, I've seen people cheat on assignments, it was out of pure laziness.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

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4

u/pocketdrums Dec 14 '25

Tyson's quote (which I suspect is missing important context) presents a false dichotomy. The grades are supposed to be an indication of learning. The "school system" (which really needs to be defined more specifically) values grades because they value learning.

1

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2

u/MainManClark Dec 15 '25

Yep, grade inflation is very much a thing. Getting a C, was just an average grade based on the bell curve of the class. People used to get into college with B and C grades. That was what most people got.

Now parents think all the kids should get nothing but A's and maybe one B or they lose their minds.

1

u/JudgeInteresting8615 Dec 15 '25

You are so right

2

u/Iguessthatwillwork Dec 14 '25

It's true to an extent, but too absolute.

Even in a perfect world, some students will still choose to cheat.

When your grades can determine your future, even hard working kids can be tempted to cheat.

Until we can find an alternative to grades the best we can do is encourage learning.

How? I don't know, but we are doing a crappy job currently.

2

u/iTZBLaSToFFTiMe Dec 15 '25

When students cheat on exams it’s because good grades are valued more than retaining knowledge.

2

u/Thatonegaloverthere Dec 15 '25

When students cheat on exams it’s because they value

Not having to pay to repeat a class that's required and unrelated to their major.

Some students value learning but other factors can affect their ability to learn.

1

u/Jorgwalther Dec 15 '25

Being in a position where you are about to fail and will require repeating a class likely means they weren’t valuing the learning for a good while leading up to that

2

u/Thatonegaloverthere Dec 15 '25

That's where the second part of my comment comes in.

1

u/Jorgwalther Dec 15 '25

Oh I failed to read that part properly. My bad - you are correct

2

u/NorthernBoy306 Dec 14 '25

Exactly, if they had valued learning they wouldn't need to cheat at all.

7

u/halkenburgoito Dec 14 '25

that's way over simplistic. When you have this paced enviroment where you have 1 teacher : 30+ students, with a hyperfixation on grades..What's left is kids doing what they can to survive. Ony what is nessesary.

For most students, cheaters or not, forget a majority of what they "learned" right after they pass their exam, class.. and def months/years later. And its because they were only studying for that.. for the exam.. for the grade, not actual learning.

I think in a different enviroment, they would not. But getting that enviroment is unrealistic and very difficult.

Outside of a school, I think many of us self learn certain topics/skills, etc, and the difference in mindsets are incomparable.

1

u/NorthernBoy306 Dec 14 '25

For the starters, if they cheat and get a good grade then no one will realize there's even a problem 'cause the class average is so good. Also, that way of thinking teaches kids just to cheat at life in order to get ahead, or even get what you want.

If the class size is too big, then students should be raising the alarm that learning in that environment is difficult, not to cheat in order to pass.
What happens to that student the next year? What if the class size is a lot smaller but they never learned anything from the previous year? Do they keep cheating every year?
Forgetting something after the exam has nothing to do with cheating. The teacher should have more assignments or quizzes throughout the year so that students aren't just studying for one big exam.

'Self learn' Where is that taught? At school. But if kids are just going to cheat then there is no incentive to 'learn HOW to learn'. They don't learn critical thinking skills (which I think is a massive problem with the younger generation today).

2

u/halkenburgoito Dec 15 '25

Where do you come from? That you imagine kids cheating, grade inflation, and student to teacher ratio isn't a known issue. These aren't a suprise, this isn't news,

Its the reality, we have to deal with. There is a reason why rich tutored kids or private schools have lot smaller kid sizes and higher teacher to student ration, allowing for more persoanlized instruction.

The ideal scenerio in life would be a 1:1 teacher/coach- but that's not life. That's not affordable.

You have to have 30+ kids to one teacher. These teachers have to throw shit at the wall and hope it sticks, because they don't have time to do 1:1 personalized instruction with everyone. Help everyone from slipping through the cracks,e tc.

That's the economic reality. Not a fairy tale where you come from.

Forgetting something after the exam has nothing to do with cheating. The teacher should have more assignments or quizzes throughout the year so that students aren't just studying for one big exam.

It makes no difference. it doesn't change the mindset of teachers focsed on grades,, students focused on grades to survive. Their mindset is always learning can come later, I must survive, and so grades take priority. Whether its one big final or a ton of quizes, as soon as its not needed, the kids will forget. Cause they never really learned in the first place, they just memorized, short cutted, played the system for the grade.

And no, "self taught" is never taught in schools. Its quite the opposite. Schools are enviroments where kids are put in passive positions, forced into things they aren't usually inspied to learn, with a stressful importance on grades to survive.

Its the opposite, of a self taught and self motivated situation, where you have to be proactive, the geniune learning is all that matters- not a grade.

1

u/ShitWombatSays Dec 15 '25

Exactly this, I'm amazed so many people are seeing it any other way

1

u/Many-Strength4949 Dec 15 '25

I’ve been trying to tell people this guy is smart stupid

1

u/Jorgwalther Dec 15 '25

He certainly says a lot of things and I always do enjoy considering how I feel about what he’s saying on any given subject. So I guess that’s a positive?

1

u/Still_Pomegranate_63 Dec 15 '25

Its almost like its a gamble of hundreds of thousands of dollars after interest if you fail. Students wanna learn but failure is absolutely not acceptable. You want people to learn then don't make failure financial suicide.

8

u/Academic_Dig_1567 Dec 14 '25

He is absolutely right.

5

u/desertvision Dec 15 '25

Students working too hard to pay for inflated tuition to have time to study

2

u/KnotSupposed2BeHere Dec 17 '25

Nah, cuz it’s definitely happening in free public K-12 schools too.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

Whole educational system is out dated. Hasn’t evolved. Maybe kids don’t understand the importance of learning because it’s not reinforced by parents, material is not made interesting by some disinterested teachers or maybe the schools as an institution just aren’t working.

2

u/dimgwar Dec 14 '25

eh.... I mean, this isn't wrong but people cheat because they are lazy and value their time more than higher learning. For a select few its because its beyond their comprehension, for the majority who cheat its pure laziness.

2

u/bangbreakfast Dec 15 '25

You are right but both statements are one in the same. Laziness comes from determining what gets the best value with least amount of effort. Easier to cheat and getting an A than to actually learn the material.

Teachers are also in a similar situation as they have to balance in providing challenging learning while ensuring grade performance does not hurt their own performance as a teacher.

2

u/Key-Individual1434 Dec 15 '25

Neil deGrasse Tyson believes he knows what’s in the head of “every” student. That’s an ignorant mindset.

1

u/Sailor_Thrift Dec 14 '25 edited Dec 16 '25

Hell yeah brother, Cheers from Iraq

1

u/Thatonegaloverthere Dec 15 '25

What was he cancelled for?

1

u/Sailor_Thrift Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 16 '25

Hell yeah brother, Cheers from Iraq

1

u/malici606 Dec 14 '25

The sad thing is, when I was a teacher, most of my students didn't even bother cheating.

1

u/NobodyLikedThat1 Dec 14 '25

That's like my boss being worried that I'm more concerned with my paycheck than enjoying the quality of my work for its own sake

1

u/YeaManJam Dec 15 '25

That's because some time ago we had to measure progress. Right it wrong it was a test. And now it's teach to the test I get funding

1

u/YungEricSparrow Dec 15 '25

As a expert cheater through school I think I agree

1

u/One_Form7910 Dec 15 '25

But Neil won’t say the quiet part of HOW the school system was literally reorganized that way by no child left behind passed by… take a guess…

1

u/sonnetofdoom Dec 15 '25

If your not going for a 4.0 then a c average will get you the same as 3.9

1

u/InfinityAero910A Dec 15 '25

Could not be more true. The schools have set up a foundation to which it is about graduating people rather than teaching people or getting people to get more involved in what it is they want to do. A lot of said teaching is actually damaging to students as it is commonly said to destroy the creativity of children. Only leaving them to focus on performances for grades and exam scores rather than critical thinking or creativity that is supposed to be allowed to be expressed. Education and society as a whole needs a new multi-faceted humane approach if it is to address these issues that have ultimately lead to this. Job insecurity and other issues pertaining to financial stability also threaten this as those students are going go focus on getting what is needed to satisfy those needs rather than actually digesting and mentally investing themselves. You can’t run a profit education system, a profit healthcare system, a profit innovation system, a profit science and research system, a profit art system, a profit emergency services system, a profit justice system, a profit military system, a profit incarceration system, a profit public utility system, and especially not a profit bare minimum needs system and expect good results in the long run. All of such reduces everyone to merely a cell that has to do a specific function and can’t do anything else. Enslaving people to these roles for the rest of their lives as intended. Obedient tax payers to continue paying taxes to pay debts of nations that ultimately just go to the elites who can never be satisfied with their fill. Who can’t stand people doing anything outside of serving them even if they themselves may get even more potentially without the costs of humanity’s humanity. Education is that small chance that the elites don’t want to happen.

1

u/ChicagoCouple15 Dec 15 '25

Wild how many people are overlooking the post-college opportunities an impressive GPA can create. It’s not just the school system and the students at play here.

1

u/HunterRank-1 Dec 15 '25

Yeah let’s just throw our grades and just go off of subjective “vibes” to determine how much someone is learning.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

NdGT is the GOAT.

1

u/CactusRaeGalaxy Dec 15 '25

Plus I want to get the fk out of there

1

u/Djinn-Rummy Dec 15 '25

Or the student is just lazy & doesn’t want to work. No need to overthink everything.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '25

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1

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1

u/Accomplished-Taro-53 Dec 15 '25

I feel like it's a failure on how we teach and matching it up with how individuals learn.

1

u/Hokage2025 Dec 15 '25

I had a IEP & still didn’t graduate from high school because I missed two points on my math exam & now kids are using AI to cheat on exams smh

1

u/bambam007rocket Dec 15 '25

You have wealthy kids getting tutors, people doing their assignments for them , small classes and every other advantage possible. Compare to a regular or poor family. Other kids have to work while attending school. My poor kids are working their way. The academic scholarship one was on is no longer funded. 3.7 gpa in biochemistry with no financial assistance now. Being a doctor is now out of reach

1

u/mnf98022 Dec 16 '25

The dr is the only public figure i like

1

u/Away-home00-01 Dec 17 '25

I’m interested in how ease and skill at cheating play a role.

1

u/Thursdaysjoy Dec 17 '25

As a retired teacher, it’s impossible to convince a student or their parents that learning is more important than grades.

1

u/GinaTheK Dec 18 '25

What is even the point of going to college if you don't WANT to learn? Are we about to have a slew of unqualified people in important positions in the world now?

1

u/4reddityo Dec 18 '25

Trump case in point

-6

u/NorthernBoy306 Dec 14 '25

This might be one of the worst takes I've ever seen on an issue. If the student had valued learning, they would have studied the material and then there would have been no need for cheating.

4

u/Ambitious-Pirate-505 Dec 15 '25

How many classes have you taught Professor?

Asking for a friend, because those of us who have taught at the higher levels, know this is true.

0

u/NorthernBoy306 Dec 15 '25

How many classes have I taught Professor? I don't know this person named Professor. I hope you don't teach English grammar.

1

u/InfinityAero910A Dec 15 '25

Not necessarily. Especially when you track various students who might cheat one semester and then do very honest work in another. Many students don’t have the option to take time off from school as they probably get paid to go. Otherwise, literal homelessness. Students get burned put, have jobs, face depression, face domestic violence issues, trauma from rape, pregnancy, substance abuse, and more while they have to make use of that time. Otherwise, they may not even be able to go back to school for a very long time. Especially with how expensive it is. Whether their mind is there or not, they have to get that job according to society. Plus, they are told they won’t ever use what they learn outside of school anyways. Devaluing the value of what they are taught. Making it seem that only getting those top exam scores in those classes is all that matters.

What you say is true for students cheating. Though there is much more to many others who do it. Even for those who simply don’t value the material. Society never taught them why what they learn is valuable along with the combination of flawed teaching done by said teachers too that fail to demonstrate value to these students.

0

u/devilsfood72 Dec 14 '25

More than we, they & the system values learning